Feedback: Anti-Spam attack prevention

Arci

Community Manager
Grepolis Team
Please share here your feedback about this first step about spam attacks prevention.
 

moonlight900

Minotaur
«A player tries to send 12 attacks from the same city within 60 seconds.»


If one throws 11 attacks from one city, then moves to 11 from another, then 11 from another works the same, ecc, the system does not act
In addition, if you launch 12 attacks in 61 seconds, which is just over one attack every 5 seconds, the system does not act.


You should reduce the number of attacks to 5, the time frame to 20 seconds and count its from all cities.
 

UltimateGR

Erinys
If the attacks are from attack planner? And you are just doing your tries? The system should recognise if the attack is from the attack planner for CS timing or its spam attacks(multiple attacks on the same time)
 

Shuri2060

Minotaur
This makes no sense. Why would you block the player from attacking for 2 hrs? What is the purpose of that? You might as well just prevent the 12th attack from being attempted --- no one is going to conduct that 12th attack under this system unless it's an accident. An accident from timing will occur much more frequently than a spammer making a mistake.

This only combats one very specific type of spam as well - rapid spam from the same city - and barely combats it at that. To work around, spammers will spread their pings over more time from more cities which would surely be much more irritating. This is worsening the situation, not improving it.

This also messes with timing - it is common to have to time multiple anchors (same city) in the same minute on higher speed worlds. Also, although usually 11 tries within 21 seconds is the limit (it is actually sometimes possible to get a few more with no lag), that does not mean a player might not ping more, because they aren't necessarily watching the clock. They might do a few more than necessary and end up setting off the block. That means you have to count your tries when timing.

I advise against implementing this system.

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Please check out this thread https://en.forum.grepolis.com/index.php?threads/anti-spam-improvements-to-the-game.62711/

There I list improvements I feel will be less disruptive to the game while combatting more types of spam. In particular, point 2. I suggest a preparation time added to all attacks during which the alarm/attack notification is not received. This would be much more effective at handling ping spam in general AND stop alarms from blaring when an enemy/ally is timing on your city.
 
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Shuri2060

Minotaur
If the attacks are from attack planner? And you are just doing your tries? The system should recognise if the attack is from the attack planner for CS timing or its spam attacks(multiple attacks on the same time)
Doesn't work, you can spam from the atk planner (and it's probably more efficient to do so).
 

Jacuzz

Divine Envoy
  • A player tries to send 12 attacks from the same city within 60 seconds.
if i'm trying to conquer a city, thanks to the attack planner, i can send and cancel up to 12 orders in 20 seconds.
then, the system will stop me for 2 hours and i will not be able to attack or support the city

this way of stopping spam attacck is not going to stop spamming attack, but is going to stop the every-day gaming made up of conquests, and, the only way to conquer (as players can't attacck or support) will be spamming attack even more...
 

Jacuzz

Divine Envoy
100% agree ... Stomp the spammers totally. The only complaints against this will be from spammers
but what about trying to conquer with the planners attack?
i can do 10-11 tries in 20 seconds....
this "changelog" is going to help the spammers...
 

timazz

Cyclop
Is everyone's problem the fact that they might achieve 12tries in 20sec? And that they would have to stop at 11? Or that in high speed worlds some attacks might be with more than one anchers on the same minute?
The main issue with this ''anti spam'' prevetion is that when a player tries to time a cs on the same second with an ls nuke, now will have to wait a whole minute before trying.
Fro example. I have light ships 1:00:00 from the city i want to conquer. I have a cs 59:50. I try to land the cs on the same second with the ls.
If i do not succed i cancel and try again. With your ''''''aNtI sPaM'''''' now i will have to wait a whole minute before trying again.

This is even worse than the sirens.
Are you actively trying to ruin the game?


I know at least 180 players that will quit if this ever goes on live servers



P.S spammers will just find a way to spam in the end. and the way i see it, you just switch city and continue to spam. Which is even worse than the normal spam you are trying to stop..
If you really want to stop spamming, MAKE IT BANNABLE. Almost none will complain. Well maybe those who spam will complain, but most people will be happy with that change
 

coffee addict

Minotaur
As I read it this is a "work in progress" and am assuming that now the "way round it" has been highlighted then efforts may be made to stop the circumventing of the attacks

@ timazz

Your post read as 1 x LS attack and CS so that is only 2 attacks as I understood it
 

timazz

Cyclop
@ timazz
Your post read as 1 x LS attack and CS so that is only 2 attacks as I understood it

2 cities that attack
1click the ls to get a time
10-11 clicks for the cs in order to have it land on the same sec with the ls.
If it doesn't land, the ls will be back in 10-15seconds. But if i want to try and time again, i will have to wait 1minute.
It might not seem like much. But if it takes me 5 tries to land the cs on the same second with the ls, it would take me 1minute to have the cs sent, now it will take up to 5minutes.


It creates micro problems for timing, when it does NOTHING to affect spamming.
It causes more problems than it solves. :(
 

Jacuzz

Divine Envoy
2 cities that attack
1click the ls to get a time
10-11 clicks for the cs in order to have it land on the same sec with the ls.
If it doesn't land, the ls will be back in 10-15seconds. But if i want to try and time again, i will have to wait 1minute.
It might not seem like much. But if it takes me 5 tries to land the cs on the same second with the ls, it would take me 1minute to have the cs sent, now it will take up to 5minutes.


It creates micro problems for timing, when it does NOTHING to affect spamming.
It causes more problems than it solves. :(
i totally agree
@Arci is this system already active?
 
Well, that´s a pity. That "solution" does not address the actual problem if we follow the statement that it is intended to be "anti- spam prevention". It cleary cannot prevent spam or ping atttacks considering that you can still send as many attacks (and cancel them) as you want from your account as long as you are able to count to 11 (and to 60 seconds) and switch your city accordingly before proceeding. Instead the new measure might block and punish legitimate game procedures (as, for example, scanning the "red" cities on an island where you have just conquered a city - something you usually do with the first units you have built there; or experienced players using nothing worse than their timing skills as desribed above). With the world settings getting faster (and now even the unit speeds -Satyr/Sirens - getting faster due to an inhouse team obviously not aware of how they are damaging the game play) those margins will continue to narrow.

Those players will be punished for nothing than legitimate actions in the game. even to the extent that they might not be able to defend themselves or their team mates against (on conquest worlds) incoming CS attacks for two hours although they did nothing wrong.

Okay - the measure might block anti-ATR-bots (sending and cancelling attacks faster than it would be possible for human actors in order to hit a certain second) - but quite honestly: Those should be recognizable for the system anyway and should alert the support team to take a closer look at those movements. But that´s a mandate to improve bot detection, not to sabotage normal (even if advanced) game play.

We had discussed measures like this at length in the German forum, and they could not find any consent, if I remember correctly. And rightly so.
 

UltimateGR

Erinys
We had a conversation in the past for this thread, what has changed now?

Grepolis - Customer Support2020-04-09 18:53:21
Hello UltimateGR,

I'm really sorry for that, but like I said, we cannot tell the players to please send less attacks, or set an attack limit.

Kind Regards,
Arci
Community Manager
 
And even worst to all above said......
If for any reason you get blocked but in the meantime you get attacked with a CS then YOU CAN NOT defend yourself as you are not able to even attack your own towns!!!!

And yes... this is a major issue like it was with the problem of not been able to defend your own town when entering vacation mode.....

And generally it is better to first discuss such major changes..... after all that was why you had invented that Council thing that you managed to cancel when thing got rough .......
 

WhoAmIv2

Beta Team
Grepolis Team
Hello @Draba Aspera, @UltimateGR, and @galanoulis,
just a reminder - this is a new feature that is, for now, active just here. The purpose of this is to have some "beta version" of prevention against spam. When we get some feedback we can adjust the rules of the prevention so it's fair to everyone and it serves its purpose.
 

UltimateGR

Erinys
Hello @Draba Aspera, @UltimateGR, and @galanoulis,
just a reminder - this is a new feature that is, for now, active just here. The purpose of this is to have some "beta version" of prevention against spam. When we get some feedback we can adjust the rules of the prevention so it's fair to everyone and it serves its purpose.
That's not the way to prevent the spam attacks, but you prevent many privileges... I can not count every move, sometimes you need spam (Basic examples: Timings, or notifing an ally)

I agree with Michaela:

Those players will be punished for nothing than legitimate actions in the game. even to the extent that they might not be able to defend themselves or their team mates against (on conquest worlds) incoming CS attacks for two hours although they did nothing wrong.

Okay - the measure might block anti-ATR-bots (sending and cancelling attacks faster than it would be possible for human actors in order to hit a certain second) - but quite honestly: Those should be recognizable for the system anyway and should alert the support team to take a closer look at those movements. But that´s a mandate to improve bot detection, not to sabotage normal (even if advanced) game play.
 

WhoAmIv2

Beta Team
Grepolis Team
Hello @UltimateGR,
I agree that there are better ways of how to prevent spam. My personal opinion is that there should be an alarm against spam (native alarm). If there is something like that, you can simply report the player that spams you and wait (without the alarm going off every 1 minute) until we look at that specific case. After all, I wrote about it in my What if we had a way to deal with flash spam? post. :)