Feedback: Aphrodite

timazz

Cyclop
Aphrodite is game breaking.
Narcissism casually overpowered.
Charitable Festival is fine
Hymn to Aphrodite needs further testing, since i am not sure how it works.
Pygmalion (passive), if every city that has aphrodite gains this passive, then every city will have aphrodite as a God. (you will have each god once, to gain their spells and every other city will use aphrodite for the +225 population.

Satyr
The new strongest mythical unit regarding Sharp Attack, cheaper than Medusa who was the previus strongest, apart from that satyr is the new fastest unit. (even faster than heroes)

But the reason aphrodite is game breaking are the other mythical unit, Siren.

Pay attention, because this mythical unit, needs reworking ASAP.
If every siren gives +2% movement speed, and it stacks at 100%, that means you can always time your attacks at the second you want.
Use 1syren, get +2%, if the attack doesnt land on the specific second you want, you use 2syrens, get +4%, if the attack doesnt land on the specific second you want, you use 3syrens, and so on. That means that every city should have many syrens so that every attacks has the ability to land on the second you want them to land. You have a maximum of 50syrens, so there is no way you won't land on the specific second you want.
 
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TOKOKIS

Divine Envoy
it looks very good ,but only Aphrodita will be new god?
and when we can play with her On normal server ?
 

Melio

Divine Envoy
Aphrodite is game breaking.
Narcissism casually overpowered.
Charitable Festival is fine
Hymn to Aphrodite needs further testing, since i am not sure how it works.
Pygmalion (passive), if every city that has aphrodite gains this passive, then every city will have aphrodite as a God. (you will have each god once, to gain their spells and every other city will use aphrodite for the +225 population.

Satyr
The new strongest mythical unit regarding Sharp Attack, cheaper than Medusa who was the previus strongest.

And the reason aphrodite is game breaking are the other mythical unit, Siren.

Pay attention, because this mythical unit, need reworking ASAP.
If every siren gives +2% movement speed, and it stacks at 100%, that means you can always time your attacks at the second you want.
Use 1syren, get +2%, if the attack doesnt land on the specific second you want, you use 2syrens, get +4%, if the attack doesnt land on the specific second you want, you use 3syrens, and so on. That means that every city should have many syrens so that every attacks has the ability to land on the second you want them to land. You have a maximum of 50syrens, so there is no way you won't land on the specific second you want.
You can only use the siren with colony ships because of the siren's unit speed.
 

timazz

Cyclop
You can only use the siren with colony ships because of the siren's unit speed.

The speed is 22 on a X1 server. Light ships have 13 speed on a X1.
That means that Sirens are currently the fastest naval unit
 
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Shuri2060

Cyclop
Like timazz has said, she is game breaking. I personally think most of the spells/units are poorly designed in terms of game mechanics.

Spell 1 is broken. This debuff stacks multiplicatively with attack buffs AND it essentially buffs ALL attacks on the city you are OPing. Coupled with CP it cannot be removed. For this reason, it is many times better than existing attack buff spells and tokens. Even the Artemis Large Temple effect lasts much less time and has the weakness of requiring time for the Illusion to land and the Illusion attack can be spelled (and then the city CPed before more Illusions are sent).

Spell 4 is also pretty broken if you consider the rarity and value of Land Expansions. They are usually one of the most valuable items in event shops, and at no favor cost we are essentially increasing the population of all non-myth (of other gods) cities by 225. You could say it is equivalent to adding more levels on farm 45 to the game, but I think an actual spell with favor cost would've been much better. I see it as a wasted spell slot.

As has been said, the Siren is ridiculously overpowered as it acts as a multiplicative anti-anchor. You only need 5 with every OFF city and perfect timing already becomes very easy (as long as you know how). At the very least please nerf this so it doesn't stack (and even then it is still very powerful as it acts as an additional anti-anchor on all attacks, bar land attacks and myths of other gods). It also can anti-anchor supports on the same god, of course (target city Aphro, or defensive sniping).

I don't like the idea of CS attacks from other islands being able to be masked. Currently, a CS from a different island can always been spotted because a max boosted helmeted CS will still be slower than a TS when spotted. That feels like a balanced part of the game to me. This will no longer be true with a speed boost of up to 100%.

It also screws with TTing incoming attacks in general. LS can now outspeed myths in all your cities (before, a combination of speed token and other boosts could make this happen, but the token has limited availability).

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I do not particularly like the design of spells 2 and 3 - they are close to useless past mid game once you have many cities since these spells boost micromanagement (I would comment the same about Happiness). Like Happiness, the optimal usage of these spells would be to have them cast as much as possible when you have spare favor to slightly boost production, but really, you wouldn't bother most of the time past a certain stage.

This is unlike currently existing spells --- I can positively say almost all of these have a use from early to late game (Happiness, Bolt, Return, less so).

No comment on Satyr, it doesn't feel like it will have much impact.
 
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timazz

Cyclop
No comment on Satyr, it doesn't feel like it will have much impact.

Medusa was out shined from Harpies since they are flying units, that is why she isn't seeing any play.
Satyr apart from being fast, it is the new strongest sharp unit. And it is relatively cheap. I can see it work as a nuke. But yeah it probably won't see much play as most not flying mythical units..
The only logical nerf on serins, is that they won't be stackable. They should give a 10/20/30% regardless of how many sirens you have.
It will act as an anchor, but only as one anchor. Right now, it practicly acts like 50 anchors XD
 

Shuri2060

Cyclop
Even if unstackable it is still very overpowered. I feel there are just the right number of (anti-)anchors in the game atm. Adding more, especially to CS attacks feels too much.

Also, the Siren isn't only additive in terms of anchors. It is actually multiplicative with the number of anchor attempts you have. Making it unstackable still doubles the number of anchor tries available.

It probably needs to be both unstackable and very slow (maybe TS speed after buff applies) - honestly, imo just get rid of the speed feature and make it something else instead.
 
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Kal Gordon

Pegasus
Just a few analytical comments.

Narcissism: While it might seem balanced on a skirmish level (e.g. trying to start a revolt, or wipe out an enemy bireme nuke), this seems to be a little too powerful on a larger scale, such as sieges between major alliances in CQ. (Cast Narcissism, then City Protection.)

Charitable Festival: Seems reasonable, although dependent on cost, it could be one of the top-level spells if combined with Heracles favour generation. Clarification on what counts as a "power" would be useful - is it spells, tokens, or both?

Hymn to Aphrodite: Again, balance is cost-dependent. More useful than Happiness for active farmers. Again, clarification on what counts as a "power" would be useful.

Pygmalion: An interesting idea. This would make Aphrodite the default god for all LS nuke cities, where that 225 extra population is particularly useful. It would be useful to know if passive spells can be purified - if they can't, it's a slightly-restricted but much more accessible version of land expansions.

Siren: I don't see any real issue with the normal stats - it is faster than any existing naval unit, but it is weaker than a trireme in attack and defence, meaning that it is significantly weaker than LS or biremes for their respective roles. As much as I hate the term "broken", the passive ability is extremely powerful. You could have an escort of 24 Sirens for a 48% speed boost, without risking Sea Storm (the reduction in naval combat power of a CS wave doesn't balance this). Presuming that this stacks with the other speed boosts in the game, it could be practically impossible to spot CSs on revolt worlds (at least on conquest, you can assume it's the last attack before any supports, unless the opposition has sent fakes). If the stacking cap had a much lower limit, they would be an interesting addition to the game - as it is, they seemingly invalidate the idea of sniping on revolt worlds, as well as generally making defending much harder on any world type.

Satyr: Nice unit. It's good to have a sharp attack unit that isn't a manticore, given that every other sharp "attack" unit was a dual-role unit and therefore wasn't particularly population-efficient in attack by comparison. I'd like to believe that the unit speed is a mistake (with the intentional value being 13 or 16), but as it's not a flying unit, the speed isn't important except for same-island attacks. (It's still too fast, but not as game-breaking as a Siren by any means.)
 

Melio

Divine Envoy
The speed is 22 on a X1 server. Light ships have 13 speed on a X1.
That means that Sirens are currently the fastest naval unit
Are you sure that these are not the values for Unit Speed 3 (Sandbox 19)? Otherwise the Satyr would be 4x faster than the Pegasus.

@Arci Could you say something about this?
 

Shuri2060

Cyclop
Are you sure that these are not the values for Unit Speed 3 (Sandbox 19)? Otherwise the Satyr would be 4x faster than the Pegasus.

@Arci Could you say something about this?
All current Unit Speeds are integers speed 1, so it looks like those are base values. But yes, that would make the Satyr very fast...

It also feels like those are very low Temple requirements... an element of balance can be brought back with say Temple 30 Harbor 30 for Siren along with a specific research (but the idea of introducing a new anchor is still overpowered, even after making the requirements absurdly high). And it feels like Temple 20+ is warranted for Satyr to stop it being overpowered very early game.
 
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Melio

Divine Envoy
All current Unit Speeds are integers speed 1, so it looks like those are base values. But yes, that would make the Satyr very fast...

It also feels like those are very low Temple requirements... an element of balance can be brought back with say Temple 30 Harbor 30 for Siren along with a specific research (but the idea of introducing a new anchor is still overpowered, even after making the requirements absurdly high). And it feels like Temple 20+ is warranted for Satyr to stop it being overpowered very early game.
I think these are the values for Unit Speed 3. Otherwise the satyr could reach any town on an island within ~ 4 minutes at Unit Speed 3/4.

We should wait until we have an exact statement, because if that were the values for Unit Speed 3, both the siren and the satyr would no longer be OP.
 

Shuri2060

Cyclop
Even at a base speed of 7.33, Sirens are still too strong. You're still adding a ton of anchors to all non-myth OFF cities regardless.

At a ridiculously high speed, Satyr will still see less usage than flyers (but at least it will be used very early game and on red islands unlike other land myths).
 

Spartan AD

Divine Envoy
Passive

Increase move speed of naval
units by 2% (Up to at 100%).


DO NOT ADD THIS YOU WILL RUIN ANY ASPECT OF TIMING SKILL IN THE GAME AND EVERYONE WILL LOCK ATTACKS BE IT REVOLT OR CQ

please ask your developers to engage their brains in future when coming up with game-changing dynamics
 

Shuri2060

Cyclop
please ask your developers to engage their brains in future when coming up with game-changing dynamics
Honestly yeah --- watching how additions to the game have been recently developed, I think the Dev team needs to run ideas through experienced players before implementing them.

Have not been impressed with the ideas/updates being implemented into the game --- they appear to lack insight into the game's meta, and that would be solved with something like a Player's Council to run ideas through before they are developed/having experienced players on the Dev team.
 

timazz

Cyclop
Unfortunately, it feels like the Dev team, doesn't know how the game works, for advanced players.
If sirens work as an anchor and they are the fastest naval unit, it works as an anchor for anchors. Which i find extremely funny.
The passive spell from aphrodite needs a rework as well. Since players, would have aphrodite, use all the population of the city and when they end up with 0 population, they would change god, and end up with -225 population.
I saw all mythical units from the travel time simulator 2weeks before it was announced that a new god will take place.
And those where the stats from the Sandbox 19, (speed 3 server)



So yeah Satyr is the new fastest unit in the game. Many times faster than anything else.
And there are 2more mythical units there, which means that there is another God under development
 
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alphahydranoid

Minotaur
Aphrodite is interesting, but as the previous speakers said, she has 2 mechanics that can ruin the gameplay.
Narcissism: Here I believe that in the case of a revolt, it is a spell that was very necessary for a long time. The defender had too much advantage in the revolt, the possibility of exchanging cities between an allies before revolt starts (rolling cities), drowing the colony ship with biremes
and a golden wall with a lot of troops, as well as the ability to farm favors and cast defensive spells on a large scale. In addition, the losses of the attacker are practically always much greater. A strong spell for the attacker is needed, of course the cost should be high, at least 400 favors. But as revolt player i think this is what we need.
Charitable Festival: Seems ok, but i wonder which bonuses count in this case? Gods spells, island quest bonuses, reinforcments too? What about negative bonuses like a plague?
Hymn to Aphrodite: Looks like better Happiness, but all depends on cost, may need some nerf.
Pygmalion: Definitely too strong as passive bonus. It will make players to to worship the Aphrodite in most cities. Plus, I suppose if I use all the population space and change god, I'll end up with -225 population. This will be abused for sure.
Satyr: Speed is funny, but since it is a land unit, doesn't change much. Other stats are balanced.
Siren: This unit need rework. Either remove her passive ability and boost her stats, making her "very fast naval mythical unit", maybe only for offensive or only defensive purpose. Or change passive to something like "If you attack with 30 syrens, your units travel 30% faster". Numbers are debatable.