**Discussion** Unit Balance

[DeletedUser]

Reposting in an effort to see if any unit balance is still being considered for 2.0. Also to see if I'm missing anything and gain other players thoughts.

Cerebus : 1250 wood, 1500 stone, 3000 coin = 5750 total resources. (also has a 230 favor cost per unit)
Swordsman (30 pop): 2850 wood, 2550 coin = 5400 total resources.
Hoplites (30 pop): 2250 stone, 4500 coin = 6750 total resources.

Now you can argue all day about the value of 240 favor, but in a comparison of normal resources, the Cerebus is quite a good deal. It does the job defensively of both (and then some) at the same time, with only the relative cost of one.

Cerebus: Ranged def = 1575, Blunt Def = 825
Swords(30): Ranged def = 900
Hoplites(30): Blunt Def = 540

The Cerebus also saves you in total build time, taking 30 min with lvl 10 Barracks, while 30 swords takes nearly 2 hours. (World 3, speed 4)

The Erinys on the other hand is quite poor in almost all aspects. I can't find a redeeming factor except a small gain in total build time vs. 55 Slingers. Those same Slingers save you in resource costs and do more total ranged damage. The defensive numbers lead me to believe it's intended for offense. If these are to be an offensive unit, then they need something added to make them more useful in some way.

Erinys: 2500 wood, 5000 stone, 5000 coin = 12500 total resources (also 480 favor)
Slingers(55 pop): 3025 wood, 5000 stone, 2200 coin = 10225 total resources

Erinys Ranged damage = 1210
Slingers Ranged damaged = 1265

Erinys Blunt def = 688, Sharp def = 688, Ranged def = 895
Swordsman (55 pop) Ranged def = 1650
Archer (55 pop) Sharp def = 1375
Hoplite (55 pop) Blunt def = 990

Give them flight perhaps, or up the damage, reduce their population used....something. If these are the final design going live, I believe the Erinys will simply go unused. Seems a wasted effort to even add them.

 

[DeletedUser]

in short cerberus are really strong and arinys need flight maybe

-NOTE that there are already flying units with blunt atack(harpie) and sharp atack (manticore) and are realy strong atack units ..manticores much better than hoplites and harpies around same attack value per population as horseman (per pop) but with flight so you dont waste atack power for transport ships..so just give arinys flight

also u do one big mistake when u compare defensive values of one mitic unit with best counters a regular unit has ...if i tack you with horsemens and slingers then you can defend with cerberus ...HOWEVER if you defend with regular units then you have to make swordsmen AND hoplites so its gona be 15 hoplites +15 swordsmen actualy this will lead to a 480 against blunt and 555 against ranged

also arinys are not that bad for defence and you can counteratack but still not good enough...just meant to say not that bad for defence as you make is seem with that wrong way of thinking

also keep in mind that you canot defend a town that has another god than hades with cerberus

 

[DeletedUser]

Good point on the other defensive numbers from buildings Swords + Hops.

That would add,

Swordman: 770 Blunt defense
Hoplite: 355 Ranged defense

Totals

Cerebus 1575 Ranged def, 825 Blunt def
Swords + Hops 1255 Ranged def, 1310 Blunt def

So, Cerebus are still better in ranged def. but lose out on Blunt. However, they retain the significant resource and build time advantage.

 

[DeletedUser]

Good point on the other defensive numbers from buildings Swords + Hops.

That would add,

Swordman: 770 Blunt defense
Hoplite: 355 Ranged defense

Totals

Cerebus 1575 Ranged def, 825 Blunt def
Swords + Hops 1255 Ranged def, 1310 Blunt def

So, Cerebus are still better in ranged def. but lose out on Blunt. However, they retain the significant resource and build time advantage.

dude you messed up the values...30 hoplites have 540 blunt defence ..and i calculated for 15 swords+15 hoplites =total of 30 pop ...no ordinary unit beats cerberus in blunt defence per population not even chariots

the only unit that beats them against blunt is a mitic one: pegasus with 900 defence for 20 pop and they also fly ...thats an amazin 45 defence for 1 pop ...whyle a hoplite has 18

cerberus have 27.5 blunt def/1pop 10sharp def/1pop and 43.6 ranged def/1pop
chariot 76 16 56 for 4 pop so each value divided by 4

27.5 10 43.6 cerberus definately a strong unit
14 8 30 swordsman
19 4 14 chariot
12.5 12.5 16.2 for erinys not that bad but compared to other mitic units they are really crap
and so on for any unit ..keep tho in mind that you canot reinforce with cerberus a town that worships another god than hades

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes, I get that. You misunderstand me though.

My point was if you built 30 Swords + 30 Hops, in an effort to match the defense of Cerebus, you would surpass it's Blunt defense but not it's Ranged defense.

In my first post I implied the Cerebus would still be better in both because I didn't add the other values to the total. I was merely correcting that mistake.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes, I get that. You misunderstand me though.

My point was if you built 30 Swords + 30 Hops, in an effort to match the defense of Cerebus, you would surpass it's Blunt defense but not it's Ranged defense.

In my first post I implied the Cerebus would still be better in both because I didn't add the other values to the total. I was merely correcting that mistake.

dont see the point...30 hoplites + 30 swardsmen are 60 pop and then you have to compare them with 2 cerberus(60pop) dont forget this

however ..regarding why this topic was started ... yes arinys need a buf AND if it comes to buffs also cyclopes need a buff aswell