Changes in Balancing

[DeletedUser452]

Hi Guys,

the Grepo Devs asked me to put this up for discussion. They are thinking about some balance changes. Phil will read and compile the results.

1. Research: Berths -> 6 instead of 2 additional spaces
2. Research: Ceramics -> 2500 instead of 500 more ressources
3. Building: Thermal Baths -> 10% more population instead of 5%
4. zeus Bolt and Poseidon's Earthquake have a cooldown time of 4 hours before it can be cast again on the same polis
5. Unit changes:
   • Manticore: Attack Damage 945 -> 1000
   • Cyclop: Defense against sharp 0 -> 10 | Population 42 -> 40
   • Pegasus: Defense against sharp 175 -> 200 | Defense against ranged 200 -> 300 | Defense against blunt 850 -> 900
   • Horseman: Defense against sharp 0 -> 1

Please discuss!

 

[DeletedUser]

Hi Guys,

the Grepo Devs asked me to put this up for discussion. They are thinking about some balance changes. Phil will read and compile the results.

1. Research: Berths -> 6 instead of 2 additional spaces
2. Research: Ceramics -> 2500 instead of 500 more ressources
3. Building: Thermal Baths -> 10% more population instead of 5%
4. zeus Bolt and Poseidon's Earthquake have a cooldown time of 4 hours before it can be cast again on the same polis
5. Unit changes:
   • Manticore: Attack Damage 945 -> 1000
   • Cyclop: Defense against sharp 0 -> 10 | Population 42 -> 40
   • Pegasus: Defense against sharp 175 -> 200 | Defense against ranged 200 -> 300 | Defense against blunt 850 -> 900
   • Horseman: Defense against sharp 0 -> 1

Please discuss!

I like berth, ceramic, thermal bath changes. As far as Zeus bolt, I have listed my reasons and arguments in the idea section. http://forum.beta.grepolis.com/showthread.php?t=234

Zeus bolt problem is not as bad if people fight more and deplete their favor from chariots or building mythical beast. Why not use battle points instead of cooldown timer. Cool down timer does not address the problem of mass recruiting tribes that sign up many allies and can bolt at will because they do not need to spend their Zeus favor to fight a conventional warfare. If you do cooldown timer, you might as well make it 12 hours rather than 4. This way, Zeus bolt will hinder a player, but the player will have 12 hours to rebuild, rendering Zeus bolt less effective. Some will cry this nerfs Zeus bolt and essentially render it useless.

Make it so it cost battle points, this way, agressive player or players who accumulate a lot of battle points as defender by wiping out attackers can still Zeus bolt someone en mass, if they have not been using Zeus favor to fight conventional war.

People who sim, who did not fight, will not be able to set another player as target for Zeus bolting due to low battle points.

We have not had much fighting done on alpha with mythical beast yet so I don't know if those changes on units are good or not right now.

 

[DeletedUser]

Hi,

first, sorry for my bad english, i'm from germany

1. I think 2 additional spaces are good. If it were 6, it would be a too big advantage
2. My opinion is, that 500 are too less, i hadn't researched it in any town. If it were 2500 and if i had some research points left if would research it, but i think 2300 moustly are enough
3. No comment, both would be ok
4. there should be a pause, but 4h are too much
5.
- why 1000? only that's a nice number? 945 are ok
- the defence in any case should be more then 0, the population is ok
- same as manticor
- same as cyclop

 

[DeletedUser]

Hi Guys,

the Grepo Devs asked me to put this up for discussion. They are thinking about some balance changes. Phil will read and compile the results.

1. Research: Berths -> 6 instead of 2 additional spaces
   i would say, IF you want to change this, then only 4 slots for fast trapos and 6 for normal ones, that the capacity/population-average between fast and normal trapos don't give that hard advantage to fast trapos
2. Research: Ceramics -> 2500 instead of 500 more ressources
   definately yes for a buff, but 1.5k should be enough
3. Building: Thermal Baths -> 10% more population instead of 5%
   yes
4. zeus Bolt and Poseidon's Earthquake have a cooldown time of 4 hours before it can be cast again on the same polis
   no, it's some kind of strategy to put down a wall hard, before you engage. otherwise you can make a polis unbeatable later
5. Unit changes:
   • Manticore: Attack Damage 945 -> 1000
     no, 21 pierce-attack/population is quite enough, maybe decrease favour-withdraw from 405 to 380 instead.
   • Cyclop: Defense against sharp 0 -> 10 | Population 42 -> 40
     agree
   • Pegasus: Defense against sharp 175 -> 200 | Defense against ranged 200 -> 300 | Defense against blunt 850 -> 900
     clearly no to the buff vs blunt. it's alrdy hard to beat a pegasus with blunt-attack
   • Horseman: Defense against sharp 0 -> 1
     0 -> 4, because aswell with 1 you can attack with 10 hoplits at night to kill 100 horsemen, that wouldn't change much.

Please discuss!

some ideas to add, from my side:

1. Increase Medusas population 18 -> 22 (an allround-unit shouldn't have the best attack/population or def/population)
2. Increase Branders (EN-Wiki says Fire Ship to Brander? ^^) movement speed from 8 -> 10 and decrease population from 10 -> 7 and fix the bug, that this units support you, when you enter the polis for colonization if there aren't ships that can be destroyed)
3. IF you buff ceramics, then swap it with Meteorology (never saw someone researching this, swapping it to tier 3 makes it more interesting for farming with low units)
4. Rework Democracy to 10% more Strength in defending you City, when the kolo enters instead of 10% more time to get the polis back (cause at the moment it's a useless research aswell)
5. Buff Catapults movement-speed from 1 -> 2 (2 hours to the neighbor are too much time to act vs catapults)
6. Rework the unit-costs to get a better balance between wood, stone and silver
   
   (it's an image from the wall of my polis on gamma and as you can see i lost/killed a lots of units to get a good average and as you can see the balance between silver/wood/stone isn't well)
7. decrease costs of hide till lvl 5 and increase it therefore after lvl 5 to reach the market place faster.
8. Buff Trade office from 1.35 -> 1.50 and add faster regeneration from 0.3 per hour to 0.5 per hour (0.3 was double-speed server, dno if on normal speed servers the regeneration is also 0.3. The reason for this is, that you need rly rly long to get at advantage from building a trade office. It's too expensive to build one when you only get this little advantage.)
9. Lower time to build storage by 20%
10. Lower horsemen attack from 60 -> 55, because there is no unit with good defense vs blunt to counter horsemen in the beginning (sword has 30 vs distance, bow 25 vs pierce, but best unit vs blunt is hoplit with 18)
11. Decrease Poseidon-Requirements for Mystic Units, Hydra from 22 -> 18
12. Remove the error-message, when sending mythic units as support to a polis, that doesn't have the same god, just don't let them support when they arrive (you can get known of the god an enemy player has by doing that)

enough for the moment, hope my english is good enough to understand, what i'm typing here

 

[DeletedUser]

1. Research: Berths -> 6 instead of 2 additional spaces
2. Research: Ceramics -> 2500 instead of 500 more ressources
3. Building: Thermal Baths -> 10% more population instead of 5%
4. zeus Bolt and Poseidon's Earthquake have a cooldown time of 4 hours before it can be cast again on the same polis
5. Unit changes:
   • Manticore: Attack Damage 945 -> 1000
   • Cyclop: Defense against sharp 0 -> 10 | Population 42 -> 40
   • Pegasus: Defense against sharp 175 -> 200 | Defense against ranged 200 -> 300 | Defense against blunt 850 -> 900
   • Horseman: Defense against sharp 0 -> 1

1. For some reason, I can't think of what this is referring to. What's Berths?

2. I like it. I think it definitely makes the research more useful.

3. I like it. This makes thermal baths a much more viable option to choose.

4. I do not like it. It's not a matter of cool down that's the problem. I understand that the power can't be so limited, so that it's useless, but a cool down just prolongs the whole group ganging up on 1 player problem. I still think some sort of consequence or requirement to use Bolt or Earthquake is the right move to make. I've posted my ideas in the other thread.

Unit Changes: I don't have any problem with any of them.

 

[DeletedUser]

I have to say I like all these changes, and think a lot of thought and effort has gone into them. Technologies and buildings that previously gave very little benefit at all are made potentially very worthwhile. Units become a little more balanced in tune with their costs. I also think a 4 hour cool down is good enough for Zeus' bolt.

At the moment the bolt is scary not because it is unbalanced, but because it is a weapon of terror. Having one member of an opponents alliance reduced to a much smaller city is not really worth the cost in favor to produce such an effect, as Blitzkrieg mentioned elsewhere that favor could much more usefully be spent on loads of chariots or minotaurs. The power of coordinated Zeus bolts is only in the fear it can produce in individuals in an opposing alliance who worry I could be next. A 4 hour cool down is enough to prevent the fear of being targetted by constant bolts, which cancels out the abusive power it currently has.

 

[DeletedUser]

Eclipse, berth is a "Transportschiff"

One bug/feature/problem of grepolis is that you need that much more kinds of troops when attacking a city on another island, that you have far less space in your farm for offensive troops.

Basically for 300 cavalry you would need 45 ships, without the research, which block 315 farm slots. Roughly 35% possible offense increase lost. On top of that you need fighting ships which will cost you another 15% farm slots.

So how much of this loss in farm slots do you want to compensate with that increase in capacity? How much harder should it be to colonize on another island. Keeping in mind the balance of slow and fast ships I think 6 is ok, but as stated above fast ships should only get an increase of 3 or 4.

the rest sounds ok to me.

 

[DeletedUser]

What seems to be the most serious balancing problem at the moment, is, that silver is needed way to much compared to the other ressources. In the beginning, there are no problems. You can simply build up the mine, but the longer the came continues, the higher gets the demand of silver. On world1.de you get only 0.42 silver for 1 stone and it tends to become even worse.

The supposes changes relating the battle system are nice, but far not as much needed as a changing of the ressource-balance.

 

[DeletedUser23]

Updates:

- Mantikor will not change (it was just a cosmetic change, but not necessary for game play)
- Harpie will also have defense against ranged increased from 0 to 1 (cosmetic change)
- Horseman attack will be decreased to 55

 

[DeletedUser23]

Balancing part II:

- Slinger attack will increase from 19 to 23
- Catapult improvement against walls (already implemented, just FYI)
- Fire Ship: population from 10 to 8, build-time reduction by more than 50% (8100 seconds => 4000 seconds)


Reducing silver shortage and wood excess:
- Transportboat: wood: 375 => 500, iron: 600 => 400
- Light Ship (Feuerschiff in German: wood: 800 => 1300, iron: 1300 => 800
- Fire Ship (Brander in German): wood: 150 => 500, iron: 750 => 150

 

[DeletedUser]

Research: Berths -> 6 instead of 2 additional spaces

That would be 26 pop on a transportship, I think +4 instead of +2 would suit better. 8x3 (horse) 6x4 (chariots) so somewhere I don't follow the logic of +6

Research: Ceramics -> 2500 instead of 500 more ressources

This is a hefty increase at early game stage, voids the upgrading of warehouse for some time.

Building: Thermal Baths -> 10% more population instead of 5%

I would have taken Thermal Baths at 5% also, but I welcome 10%

zeus Bolt and Poseidon's Earthquake have a cooldown time of 4 hours before it can be cast again on the same polis

I like this , better than it is now

 

[DeletedUser]

Jewish game ???

I am very unpleasantly surprised with last changes in the game. When I compared the balance of power in slinger and hoplites simulator result was that 50 slinger kill 100 hoplites !!!???
Is this game called Jewish mythology??? David killed Goliath with a sling.
But can a soldier armed with sling and unarmoured be far stronger than the famous armored soldiers of ancient Greece???
Do I need to remind you of Sparta, Termopil, King Leonidas and his 300 hoplites?
In the hope that you will respect the name of the game and balance i recomend you to bring back the attack of slingers !!! I know some players that think this is total junk !!! I mean c'mon people ,use your brain !!!! Some players are gonna stop playing this game becouse its very unreal in some way !!!

 

[DeletedUser]

statistics

Here are some statistics !!! 10 slingers ca kill 15 archers, 10 slingers kill 30 hoplites , 10 slingers kill 8 horsemen ,10 slingers kill 4 chariots, 10 slingers CAN KILL 100 slingers !!! THIS IS RIDICULIS !!!!

 

[DeletedUser]

Here are some statistics !!! 10 slingers ca kill 15 archers, 10 slingers kill 30 hoplites , 10 slingers kill 8 horsemen ,10 slingers kill 4 chariots, 10 slingers CAN KILL 100 slingers !!! THIS IS RIDICULIS !!!!

what do u want to say?
noone would def with that units u are mentioning.
i can also say 1 hoplit kills 100 horsemen, SO WHAT?
you want to say slinger-buff is OP, cause you lose with off-units in def?
10 slingers kill 30 hoplits, but 10 hoplits also kill 20 slingers?
10 slingers lose vs 8 swordmen.

Sry, but that what you are talking about shows, that you don't understand the fight-system very well. Only because 1 hoplit or 1 chariot kills 100 horsemen don't makes the unit overpowered.

Slingers had too much deficites in the past, that's why ppl didn't research them. Furthermore the balance between ressources wasn't good, slinger-buff buffs this secondarily aswell, cuz you'll need less iron and more stone if you get slingers into your off.

But don't make this ridiculous comparision, you can't let run off-units into units that can't def at all and say OMFG IT'S FUCKING OP THAT BUFF

my 2 cents.

 

[DeletedUser]

Unreal

Ok smart guy !!! I have a little question for you !!! What about if you attack someone with all units (10 each) and def. is all units (10 each) and city wall is on level 6 !!!! WHO DO YOU think wins ??? i just wanted to say that this new patch brought unreal statistics !!!

 

[DeletedUser]

This is probably your first game in this genre, seems you don't understand the battle engine at all.

 

[DeletedUser]

Ok smart guy !!! I have a little question for you !!! What about if you attack someone with all units (10 each) and def. is all units (10 each) and city wall is on level 6 !!!! WHO DO YOU think wins ??? i just wanted to say that this new patch brought unreal statistics !!!

what's your point? You want from me to say you who wins when i attack with 10 of all and the defender def with 10 at all?

I wouldn't answer to this, because that is totally retarded and will never happen. As i said before, get the difference between off- and def-units. Noone would attack with sword, noone would def with horsemen.

slingers were underrated in the past cuz they were easy to counter, cuz swordmen have 30 def vs distance. And everyone can build cuz u don't need a research for them, that's why slingers were underrated by the players in the past.

And don't go on asking me stupid things, stick to arguments based on things that happen in the game not based on things that will never happen.

 

[DeletedUser]

I have 2605 points !!! unlike your 201 points !!! you started playing yesterday or u are a noob ,u didnt get the point here !!!! You're coments are irrelevant !!!

 

[DeletedUser]

Problem is: He is right, nontheless.

Just because you watched some mythologically inspired movie why totally destroy the game balance and make hoplits the best unit in the game? The balance isn't perfect but your arguments so far suck.

Try to make a better suggestion how the three types of offense and of defense should be balanced out.

Basically you could have a is good against b and bad against c, b is good against c and bad against a. It doesn't matter how you label a, b or c in the end. If you call in werevolves, kittens or hoplits. Do you primarily want a balanced game or do you want it to fit your opinions of those labels? Sure both would be nice, but others might have different views.

 

[DeletedUser]

cptdule is right! This is unrealistic.
I love the history of ancient Greece,thats why I started to play this game. The strongest and most celebrated soldiers of ancient Greece were hoplites. For me it is unacceptable that a small group of savages dressed in rags and armed with sling is overwhelmingly stronger than armored and trained warriors!
In any game you know ,that same kind of men can defeat absolutely the same and equally specified numerical army in . Previously, the balance of power was in favor of the one who defends. Now it's changed and now its in the use of the one that attacks ?!?!?!
IF this isnt changed in couple of days . I'm going to leave the game!!! Im not saying like u need me im saying this game is becomig stupid with every new patch the make !!!